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	<title>Comments on: News Flash to SEOs: Your developer hates you</title>
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	<link>http://outspokenmedia.com/seo/news-flash-to-seos-your-developer-hates-you/</link>
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		<title>By: Jeff Yablon</title>
		<link>http://outspokenmedia.com/seo/news-flash-to-seos-your-developer-hates-you/#comment-24362</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Yablon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2011 19:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outspokenmedia.com/?p=11105#comment-24362</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m sorry, man, but you&#039;re so off-point, it hurts.

Yes, Marketing types think marketing is all that matters (when you&#039;re a hammer, everything looks like a nail). And you&#039;re right that for them to start messing with your stuff means they&#039;ve got their heads up their behinds ... &lt;em&gt;exactly as much as you do&lt;/em&gt;.


Fact is, these problems come up when the geeks, the artists, and the business people each think that what they do is what matters most. And what really matters is that EVERYONE gets their stuff done and that it interact correctly.

In this all-too-complicated scenario, someone has to be the equivalent of a &quot;general contractor&quot;. And yeah, absent one being hired that needs to be the client and the client isn&#039;t going to do it.

But for you to hate the marketing guy? Cripes, go get a job.

And yeah ... I&#039;m the general contractor.

Jeff Yablon
President &amp; CEO
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, man, but you&#8217;re so off-point, it hurts.</p>
<p>Yes, Marketing types think marketing is all that matters (when you&#8217;re a hammer, everything looks like a nail). And you&#8217;re right that for them to start messing with your stuff means they&#8217;ve got their heads up their behinds &#8230; <em>exactly as much as you do</em>.</p>
<p>Fact is, these problems come up when the geeks, the artists, and the business people each think that what they do is what matters most. And what really matters is that EVERYONE gets their stuff done and that it interact correctly.</p>
<p>In this all-too-complicated scenario, someone has to be the equivalent of a &#8220;general contractor&#8221;. And yeah, absent one being hired that needs to be the client and the client isn&#8217;t going to do it.</p>
<p>But for you to hate the marketing guy? Cripes, go get a job.</p>
<p>And yeah &#8230; I&#8217;m the general contractor.</p>
<p>Jeff Yablon<br />
President &amp; CEO</p>
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		<title>By: Gerard McLean</title>
		<link>http://outspokenmedia.com/seo/news-flash-to-seos-your-developer-hates-you/#comment-24305</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerard McLean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jul 2011 21:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outspokenmedia.com/?p=11105#comment-24305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Everybody: Read, read, read that blog post! Now, just do it.. before commenting.. now, read it.. r-e-a-d  i-t]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everybody: Read, read, read that blog post! Now, just do it.. before commenting.. now, read it.. r-e-a-d  i-t</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rhea Drysdale</title>
		<link>http://outspokenmedia.com/seo/news-flash-to-seos-your-developer-hates-you/#comment-24303</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhea Drysdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jul 2011 20:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outspokenmedia.com/?p=11105#comment-24303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[DJ was all over that request -- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.seerinteractive.com/blog/dear-seos-and-developers-you-both-suck/2011/07/13/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dear SEOs and Developers - YOU BOTH SUCK&lt;/a&gt;. :D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DJ was all over that request &#8212; <a href="http://www.seerinteractive.com/blog/dear-seos-and-developers-you-both-suck/2011/07/13/" rel="nofollow">Dear SEOs and Developers &#8211; YOU BOTH SUCK</a>. :D</p>
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		<title>By: Anita Campbell</title>
		<link>http://outspokenmedia.com/seo/news-flash-to-seos-your-developer-hates-you/#comment-24298</link>
		<dc:creator>Anita Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jul 2011 20:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outspokenmedia.com/?p=11105#comment-24298</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very illuminating, and I really appreciate the post.  I learned a few things to help me understand where my developers are coming from when they do or say certain things.

But let me speak from a third point of view, that of the client.  One of the things I find frustrating as a client is developers and SEOs who refuse to even talk with one another, much less work together.  That&#039;s what leads to a client just going off and calling in an SEO on their own:  because they are afraid they&#039;re going to have to spend hours trying to soothe ruffled feathers and play referee.  Or that their projects will get put on the back burner by both the developer and the SEO, who are both now passive-aggressive at the client for what they consider mucking around in THEIR  domains.  Luckily I don&#039;t have that happen with the people I work with today, but I have experienced it a number of times over the years.

As a client and the person footing the bills, I&#039;d prefer SEOs who at least try to understand some basic elements of code (including what not to touch without asking lest it break and be disastrous for my site!) -- and developers who at least try to understand some basic elements of SEO (or present a couple of options that can be discussed with the SEO before spending thousands of my dollars on something that may have to be scrapped or rewritten because it&#039;s not search friendly).

So maybe I should go work on the &quot;Why clients [sometimes] hate their developers and their SEOs&quot; post....  :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very illuminating, and I really appreciate the post.  I learned a few things to help me understand where my developers are coming from when they do or say certain things.</p>
<p>But let me speak from a third point of view, that of the client.  One of the things I find frustrating as a client is developers and SEOs who refuse to even talk with one another, much less work together.  That&#8217;s what leads to a client just going off and calling in an SEO on their own:  because they are afraid they&#8217;re going to have to spend hours trying to soothe ruffled feathers and play referee.  Or that their projects will get put on the back burner by both the developer and the SEO, who are both now passive-aggressive at the client for what they consider mucking around in THEIR  domains.  Luckily I don&#8217;t have that happen with the people I work with today, but I have experienced it a number of times over the years.</p>
<p>As a client and the person footing the bills, I&#8217;d prefer SEOs who at least try to understand some basic elements of code (including what not to touch without asking lest it break and be disastrous for my site!) &#8212; and developers who at least try to understand some basic elements of SEO (or present a couple of options that can be discussed with the SEO before spending thousands of my dollars on something that may have to be scrapped or rewritten because it&#8217;s not search friendly).</p>
<p>So maybe I should go work on the &#8220;Why clients [sometimes] hate their developers and their SEOs&#8221; post&#8230;.  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Norcross</title>
		<link>http://outspokenmedia.com/seo/news-flash-to-seos-your-developer-hates-you/#comment-24259</link>
		<dc:creator>Norcross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outspokenmedia.com/?p=11105#comment-24259</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interestingly enough in your eloquent piece of humblebrag, you never make any mention of the other parts of the development process that don&#039;t involve SEO work. Just getting a demand list from an SEO often isn&#039;t enough: they don&#039;t know (and haven&#039;t bothered to ask) what other parts of the site have been built, or how your requirements completely conflict with everything else that&#039;s been done. You don&#039;t refer to any two-way communication, only a dictatorship of your SEO prowess. 

Do I think all SEOs should take the blame for the bad ones? Absolutely not.  But just like I have to be mindful of how bad developers indirectly affect my reputation, y&#039;all need to know that the bad apples out there can ruin your entire orchard.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interestingly enough in your eloquent piece of humblebrag, you never make any mention of the other parts of the development process that don&#8217;t involve SEO work. Just getting a demand list from an SEO often isn&#8217;t enough: they don&#8217;t know (and haven&#8217;t bothered to ask) what other parts of the site have been built, or how your requirements completely conflict with everything else that&#8217;s been done. You don&#8217;t refer to any two-way communication, only a dictatorship of your SEO prowess. </p>
<p>Do I think all SEOs should take the blame for the bad ones? Absolutely not.  But just like I have to be mindful of how bad developers indirectly affect my reputation, y&#8217;all need to know that the bad apples out there can ruin your entire orchard.</p>
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		<title>By: ioana</title>
		<link>http://outspokenmedia.com/seo/news-flash-to-seos-your-developer-hates-you/#comment-24251</link>
		<dc:creator>ioana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outspokenmedia.com/?p=11105#comment-24251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, sometimes we hate developers too. In my own (granted not very vast) experience, most  want to do what suits them best and only apply half of the SEO recommendations one sends them. And yes, I make detailed documents with specs or best practices, because I&#039;ve learned a long time ago that programmers don&#039;t like to think outside their piece of code or will put some default stuff like they&#039;re used to when I don&#039;t specify anything (having been told by developers to provide full details about what I want, I should have thought not asking for something means one does not want it, but apparently it only works that way when it suits the programmer).

Does the truth hurt? Well, it&#039;s not all your fault. Just most of it. Oh wait, you&#039;re not responsible for what other developers do? Then why do you think good and honest SEOs should accept being blamed? Because what you&#039;re saying is that all SEOs should take the blame for what bad SEOs do, since we&#039;re all in the same business. That&#039;s almost communist. I suppose your purpose was creating  what people call &quot;link bait&quot;. I don&#039;t see any other use for the existence of this article... 

Anyway, if you have a problem with some SEO people, talk to the clients who hired them (usually because they mistook knowledge of fancy words with real knowledge or simply wanted cheap work - it&#039;s hard to blame poor Indians or Bangladeshi for wanting to earn some money). I for one bug developers out of their laziness by insisting until they do what I ask just to get rid of me. And I used to motivate in-house programmers with food - I see from your bacon remark that my colleagues were not exceptions in that respect, though I strongly believe in the effectiveness of cookies and pastries rather than bacon. I&#039;m sure you can think of better methods to deal with bad SEOs...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, sometimes we hate developers too. In my own (granted not very vast) experience, most  want to do what suits them best and only apply half of the SEO recommendations one sends them. And yes, I make detailed documents with specs or best practices, because I&#8217;ve learned a long time ago that programmers don&#8217;t like to think outside their piece of code or will put some default stuff like they&#8217;re used to when I don&#8217;t specify anything (having been told by developers to provide full details about what I want, I should have thought not asking for something means one does not want it, but apparently it only works that way when it suits the programmer).</p>
<p>Does the truth hurt? Well, it&#8217;s not all your fault. Just most of it. Oh wait, you&#8217;re not responsible for what other developers do? Then why do you think good and honest SEOs should accept being blamed? Because what you&#8217;re saying is that all SEOs should take the blame for what bad SEOs do, since we&#8217;re all in the same business. That&#8217;s almost communist. I suppose your purpose was creating  what people call &#8220;link bait&#8221;. I don&#8217;t see any other use for the existence of this article&#8230; </p>
<p>Anyway, if you have a problem with some SEO people, talk to the clients who hired them (usually because they mistook knowledge of fancy words with real knowledge or simply wanted cheap work &#8211; it&#8217;s hard to blame poor Indians or Bangladeshi for wanting to earn some money). I for one bug developers out of their laziness by insisting until they do what I ask just to get rid of me. And I used to motivate in-house programmers with food &#8211; I see from your bacon remark that my colleagues were not exceptions in that respect, though I strongly believe in the effectiveness of cookies and pastries rather than bacon. I&#8217;m sure you can think of better methods to deal with bad SEOs&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Martinez</title>
		<link>http://outspokenmedia.com/seo/news-flash-to-seos-your-developer-hates-you/#comment-24213</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Martinez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outspokenmedia.com/?p=11105#comment-24213</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hope that none of the SEOs I have ever trained or worked with would sit down and start adding plugins to a Website without actually going over a plan with the client and -- hopefully -- the developer.

SEO-by-plugin has many followers in the Googler Webmaster Help forums.  Guess what they&#039;re all asking for ....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope that none of the SEOs I have ever trained or worked with would sit down and start adding plugins to a Website without actually going over a plan with the client and &#8212; hopefully &#8212; the developer.</p>
<p>SEO-by-plugin has many followers in the Googler Webmaster Help forums.  Guess what they&#8217;re all asking for &#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rhea Drysdale</title>
		<link>http://outspokenmedia.com/seo/news-flash-to-seos-your-developer-hates-you/#comment-24212</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhea Drysdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2011 18:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outspokenmedia.com/?p=11105#comment-24212</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ask and ye shall receive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ask and ye shall receive.</p>
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		<title>By: john andrews</title>
		<link>http://outspokenmedia.com/seo/news-flash-to-seos-your-developer-hates-you/#comment-24208</link>
		<dc:creator>john andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2011 18:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outspokenmedia.com/?p=11105#comment-24208</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[oops.. broken html. hopefully someone can fix it ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops.. broken html. hopefully someone can fix it ;-)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: john andrews</title>
		<link>http://outspokenmedia.com/seo/news-flash-to-seos-your-developer-hates-you/#comment-24207</link>
		<dc:creator>john andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2011 18:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outspokenmedia.com/?p=11105#comment-24207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow.. at least we&#039;ve gone from &quot;80% of SEOs are scammers&quot; to &quot;80% of people in the web industry are scammers&quot;. I suppose that&#039;s an improvement? 

Or, maybe it&#039;s just that, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.johnon.com/7/seo-the-new-door-to-door-job.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;everyone became an SEO&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.. at least we&#8217;ve gone from &#8220;80% of SEOs are scammers&#8221; to &#8220;80% of people in the web industry are scammers&#8221;. I suppose that&#8217;s an improvement? </p>
<p>Or, maybe it&#8217;s just that, <a href="http://www.johnon.com/7/seo-the-new-door-to-door-job.html" rel="nofollow">everyone became an SEO</a>.</p>
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